Forums: Index > Dobbstalk > Proposed Bureaucrat The Overmind

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Because of continuing problems with vandalism and hostility, IPs and brand new members to cannot edit this page.

This is a very serious decision. Elevation to Bureaucrat cannot be reversed except by Wikia Staff for extraordinary reasons or by the Bureaucrat himself. While no votes are counted, everyone's opinion will be considered.

A decision on this issue will be made one week from posting, on 21 November 2015. This is not a vote! If a single Primary Editor or Secondary Editor does not agree, the elevation will not happen.

To understand what a bureaucrat and administrator are on Wikia, see Help:User rights.


The Overmind aka General Public founded this website and was its first Bureaucrat and Administrator. He was gone for a while, but returned and has been keeping the peace in a site that was a battleground. There had been a lot of conflict on this website for one main reason. There was no Bureaucrat/Administrator who could both prove he had years of knowledge of the Church of the SubGenius and understood and followed Wikia policy.

After his return, he was elevated to administrator. If he's restored as a bureaucrat, it will be exactly one month from his previous elevation.

I propose The Overmind be elevated to bureaucrat. He:

  1. Founded this website. The only reason he was removed by Wikia staff as admin and bureaucrat was because of inactivity. But now he's back.
  2. Made the most edits on this site of any editor.
  3. Created the most articles on this site.
  4. Is rated first on this site by badges.
  5. Uploaded many images on this site complete with descriptions and rights.
  6. First edited on Wikia over five years ago.
  7. Has made thousands of edits including this site and other Wikia sites.
  8. Has made posts to problem editors that shows he can be diplomatic.
  9. Has more positives under his name on Forum:Who Decides than any other editor.
  10. Can be the one person both the long-time Wikians and long-time SubGenii can respect for his knowledge and experience.

(For how group decisions like this one are made, see Forum:Who Decides) Miley Spears Junior Bobbie Girl (let's talk) 04:04, November 14, 2015 (UTC)


  • COMMENT. I support the re-elevation of The Overmind to Bureaucrat for the reasons stated above. Miley Spears Junior Bobbie Girl (let's talk) 04:10, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT. This is a very serious decision, and does require due deliberation. In my case, I did not support this when it was originally proposed because I thought it was too early after The Overmind's return and I wanted to see that The Overmind truly showed the ability and willingness to fulfill the duties of a bureaucrat which, to me, are largely related to making no decision without consensus. An admin is sometimes required to make a quick and solo decision, but I think as a bureaucrat this should never be done. I would like a statement from The Overmind that he will not use the position of bureaucrat to elevate or remove anyone's status without agreement from others in a position to make such decisions. If he agrees to this, and barring any unforeseen problems, I will support his elevation. Pope Hilde (talk) 14:09, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT. I totally agree that we shouldn't elevate or demote anyone without agreement. I know The Overmind elevated someone to admin a couple years ago but then The Overmind was the only admin! Really the only person who messed that up here is me when I screwed up and elevated an imposter. I'll never elevate or demote anyone on my own again unless I'm the only admin/bureaucrat on a site. Miley Spears Junior Bobbie Girl (let's talk) 04:08, November 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT. As The Overmind agreed to this condition (as did Miley Spears above and as do myself below, currently the two administrators/bureaucrats of this site), I suppot the elevation of The Overmind to Bureaucrat. Pope Hilde (talk) 19:48, November 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT. I agree to the conditions Pope Hilde has set, regarding that I won't elevate or remove anyone's status without agreement from others or in any other way abuse my privileges without agreement from others, and thank Miley Spears for this generous offer. I would like the 2 existing bureaucrats Miley Spears and Pope Hilde to agree to the same conditions as me so that we can all be equals and all governed by the same rules. Aside from that, I accept this offer of position of bureaucrat, agree to those conditions as long as the other bureaucrats also agree to hold themselves to the same standard they'll hold me to, and I welcome any input from anyone else on this wiki who wants to vote on this issue (and of course if any primary or secondary voter rejects this I will respect the decision). Anyway, thanks for the generous proposal, I agree to it as well as the various conditions, as long as the rest of the leadership also holds themselves to those same standards, although I don't have any doubts about that, since as Pope Hilde made clear, she holds herself and Miley Spears to the same standards she expects of me.

    I welcome the input of anyone else here and if anyone objects to this proposal or to the standards Pope Hilde expects of me being applied to all people who have bureaucrat powers, feel free to reply. As stated above, if even one primary or secondary voter objects, there will not be consensus for this decision, and I am willing to accept any outcome and encourage everyone to comment on this or reply to this comment. Those standards, again, are that we will not elevate or remove anyone's status without agreement on this first (either through consensus if at all possible or voting if absolutely necessary). So, as one example, in the past I elevated Jzp-wikia's privileges to administrator, when this wiki had only been around for a few months, I was the only bureaucrat or administrator at that time, and the wiki was under attack by vandals and spammers, but at that time we had no democratic or consensus-based decision-making process in place so I simply did it on my own volition (Jzp-wikia being someone who was carefully vetted and strongly approved of by other SubGenii elsewhere on the Internet and who had volunteered to be an admin elsewhere on the Internet, in a SubGenius discussion group where I was urgently looking for someone to assist me with the large volume of vandalism and spam we were getting at that time and trying to recruit people to help out on this wiki, who would need admin powers so they could ban the vandals/spammers). That kind of decision to change a user's status on one's own without consulting anyone else here on this wiki itself would NOT be made anymore, by anyone who is a bureaucrat on this wiki, whether it is me or anyone else. So for instance, if we ever made another person an administrator again (or ESPECIALLY a bureaucrat), this would be done through consensus if possible or a democratic vote only if absolutely necessary, and the process would take place here on this wiki rather than elsewhere on the Internet.

    Consensus is preferable to a democratic vote because in consensus-based decision-making, we seek out the agreement of EVERYONE involved, whereas a democratic vote only seeks the agreement of a majority of people involved, so a democratic vote can be subject to "tyranny of the majority", where people who disagree feel left out, whereas consensus is immune to this since in consensus it requires agreement from everyone. I am quite used to consensus-based decision-making, given the fact that I was originally raised in the Quaker religion years ago, that is how Quakers make all of their decisions, and, interestingly enough, most consensus-based decision making systems (including the one used on Wikipedia and the one used by the Occupy movement) are originally inspired by the system Quakers devised back in the 1600s and still use to this day. That is just an interesting little factoid, I'm not going to turn this into a wiki about Quakerism or anything like that, I lost interest in Quakerism years ago, mostly because I found its silent meetings incredibly boring. The point of it is, I have seen consensus-based decision making done many times and seen how well it can work, so I have no problem agreeing to the standards Pope Hilde has set for me to follow if I am to be a bureaucrat again, as long as all bureaucrats agree they will likewise hold themselves to those same standards (which shouldn't be too difficult, we are just all agreeing that none of us will make important decisions unilaterally without consulting each other in a proper fashion, something I think we can all easily agree on). --The Overmind (talk) 04:14, November 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT. I don't even know if I've been granted an opinion to express here, but my various nefarious agents report that The Overmind was removed from his positions by The C.O.N.S.P.I.R.A.C.Y. and thus their decision is invalid. So The Overmind is still an Administrator and Bureaucrat and the website should show that. Also The Overmind might want to think about visiting the Temple of the Laconic. JoX the Bobtist (talk) 05:55, November 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT. Everyone who can edit this page has the right to express an opinion, and you certainly are welcome. I do think perhaps that Laconic Temple would be more laconic than Temple of the Laconic. Pope Hilde (talk) 16:30, November 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT. I am not sure how a Laconic Temple differs from a Masonic or Satanic temple but they all rhyme with each other so that might indicate something. If I can find a Laconic Temple nearby I'll be sure to pay it a visit. --The Overmind (talk) 05:50, November 18, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT.The Overmind posted above, "I won't elevate or remove anyone's status without agreement from others or in any other way abuse my privileges without agreement from others." Miley Spears wrote above "I'll never elevate or demote anyone on my own again unless I'm the only admin/bureaucrat on a site." As for myself, I agree not to use my bureaucrat status to promote or demote an editor on without general agreement from others that are specified as having a voice in such a decision making process (currently that includes Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary Editors as listed in Forum:Who Decides, but is subject to change by agreement of those editors). I will follow the decision-making procedures that are in place when I make such a decision, whether that requires unanimous agreement, agreement by a majority, a vote determined by points based on status or level of contribution, or some other agreed-upon procedure. As an administrator, there are times where I believe a decision can and should be made by one person because of urgency (reverting/rolling back vandalism, temporarily blocking a destructive or spamming editor, etc.) but that decision is subject to review and change later. Pope Hilde (talk) 19:45, November 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT I agree with Pope Hilde's above comment and take this as an agreement among all 3 current admins (noting the comment by Miley Spears she quoted). There are some good points made in that comment directly above this one that I agree with. --The Overmind (talk) 05:50, November 18, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT I agree with it all too. Miley Spears Junior Bobbie Girl (let's talk) 03:26, November 19, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT.Sure. Ivan Stang (talk) 22:53, November 16, 2015 (UTC)
  • COMMENT. As of right now, the date has been reached and there is consensus. Assuming there's still consensus, as she made the proposal I'll let Miley do the elevation. Pope Hilde (talk) 13:46, November 21, 2015 (UTC)

The decision was to elevate User:The Overmind to the position of Bureaucrat for this site.

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