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This discussion is considered archived. Please do not edit it; it will have no effect.

REMOVE. I'm not against Jzp-wikia being an editor, only being an admin. He was made admin after only 8 edits. He joined on April 1 (April Fool's Day, get it?) and made only two edits. Then nothing for two weeks. Then two edits then nothing for a week. If I was here then I would have totally disagreed with him being made an admin. He had no experience at all, and had only even made one communication with another user and that was calling it a bot. I've been editing wikis for seven years and never saw such a thing. Then he made a very few more edits, then didn't make any edits for two years until a couple weeks ago even though he claims he "successfully patrolled against vandalism for the past three years."

Then he came back and his first message was inaccurate and insulting to someone he'd never talked to; not a way for an admin to return. Then he made it look like he did an incredible amount of edits in two or three days when he wasn't antagonizing users. About 140 of them were just removing articles from categories. I posted how he could have done them with one edit. Several times his edit history shows more edits than a human being could really make in one minute. But he wants credit for all of them even though before he complained about others getting credit for small edits that they really did.

Then he questions other editor's rights to be editing here and claims the authority to decide who edits, and talks over and over again about "other" people being sockpuppets. He also posts versions of the same message over and over if he disagrees with someone. See one in comments here. Except for editing articles, he acts exactly like a troll. If he wasn't an admin and wasn't also productive in editing articles, I would ignore him like I usually ignore trolls. But as he has power over me as an admin I can't.

And he overly asserts his power. Even though he's been shown links where he called editor's work horrible or crap, then said he didn't mean it, he said himself he still doesn't get it. He posted "I'm still confused over what was presumed to be an insult. I've been keeping my rage in check." He doesn't understand how what he writes affects other people. Any wiki writer should understand that, but especially an admin. I think an admin should have proved themselves over a great deal of time and be especially good with dealing with people. Maybe someday he'll be real good at it, but not now. I don't think he's ready to be an admin and certainly against him trying to become a bureaucrat. Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 02:19, August 6, 2015 (UTC)


Sigh. Where to start?
  • "only being an admin"
    • Please recall that you moved into here. No one forced you, and moving in is to accept the existing rules and admins.
    • There were no active admins. None had edited here in over two years. It was like moving into an abandoned house; you don't have to follow the list of house rules rotting on the wall.
  • "only 8 edits"
    • you weren't here then. Shockingly, there were few edits in the first month of operation on a new wiki. Please look at the logs if you wish for the attacks of vandalism against which The Overmind defended, in real time. I was better versed in doing so, so he gave me the rights to keep doing so. Please do see [[1]] - all our discussion was in the open and it is plain to see. Note also "I honestly don't think I made much in the way of contribution, but sure, whatevs" so please skip the "just 8 edits" trope.
    • No, I wasn't here then, but I checked the history in detail. I know what happened. I think you linked to the wrong thread because there's only one post there. What "just 8 edits" trope? I've never seen an admin posted that fast anywhere.
  • "no experience at all"
    • bogus. I've been a system adminstration and manager of various information systems since 1988. I've been building internet networks since 1990. I've run engineering for startups. [skip a few decades] I've been contributing to wikipedia since 2006. I've worked on several private-group and highly-specialized wikis since then (mostly mediawiki, far too much twiki for my liking). I've been the technical writer and.or editor on thousands of projects over the last 20 + years.
    • Fine. But I was talking about wikia experience. Now that I know what you claim, I still wonder what experience you've had getting along with others on a wiki. The main job of a Wikia admin is working things out with other editors. How much experience have you had resolving personality conflicts online? You've already posted you have no interest in doing that, and that's the most important job of a wiki administrator.
  • "calling it a bot"
    • There's no context to your link (thread doesn't seem to have any?) but there is/was automagic greeting to users on this wikia. maybe that's the context?
    • Sorry I don't know what you're talking about.
  • patrolled against vandalism
    • Yes, there hasn't been any since the spate in 2012 when we started. I have a task that watches for activity here and didn't HAVE to do anything until I noted new folks here turning over the furniture.
    • Being an admin doesn't mean just siting outside and looking in the window for two years to see if anybody comes in. I was talking about being an admin, not a security guard.
  • "first message insulting"
    • If the use of the word bollocks offends you, you really shouldn't be in the SubGenius playground. Otherwise I'm very curious what you think is insulting. Please do expand and provide examples. I specifically said "There hasn't been anything TO admin. If you want to be changing stuff and don't have the rights, just ask." How is that insulting?
    • I've explained this already. It has to do with how you introduced yourself to everybody, saying we're wrong and you're right. That's the way you've continued to behave.
  • "when he wasn't antagonizing users"
    • If you think I've been antagonizing, you are in no position to handle a SubGenius site. I'm the nicest Yeti you'll meet. Before you or your other half come back with stern warnings, expect to be banning all the SubGenii who attempt to participate. Hopefully before then your sense of humour will kick in.
    • Until today I wasn't admin so I didn't have a site here to handle. As an editor, other than doing some edits on Wikipedia, I did most of my early editing on Uncyclopedia of six years ago. It was the most antagonistic and insulting site I've ever edited. But there were dozens of users, and that's the way they talked there. There's no established community relations here because until a little over a week ago there wasn't any community.
  • "more edits than a human can make in one minute"
    • False. Firstly because I did indeed make them and secondly because the timestamp is only on the commit. People working on multiple related things can have multiple tabs or browser windows open and commit then all pretty darn fast when they are satisfied. I'm horrified that someone who wishes to be an admin would accuse me of ... whatever you're accusing me of due to being overly-prolific. Maybe you could have asked my technique? I mean, I know you young'uns don't think old dogs can teach you anything; I'm used to ageism at this point. But I didn't expect to have it thrown at me here.
    • If you knew my background you would not accuse me of being ageist. Besides, how would I have known your age then anyway? I've seen lots of people use tech to boost their edit numbers. You posted elsewhere yourself you were purposely making a bunch of small edits to boost your numbers after you accused me of doing it.
  • "wants credit for all of them even though before he complained"
    • I still think staging small edits to get edit counts and badges is weak. But I can also recognized when I'm outnumbered for voting on anything, so when you can't beat 'em, join 'em. If you dislike my small edits, how can you not dislike you own?
    • I did a lot of editing on Wikipedia. If you're an experienced Wikipedia editor like you say you are, you should know that small edits is the rule there.
  • "claims the authority to decide who edits"
    • Citation needed. I have never claimed this.
    • Only over and over again. You kept asking for editors to show their membership card (like you do immediately below) which as I posted below violates the policy you keep saying you support.
  • "people being sockpuppets"
    • Yup. Still waiting to have some response that you two who rolled in together on an inactive wiki and started forklifting in all sorts of discordian stuff aren't the same person. If you've actually been on the Internet for any length of time and dealing with controversial subjects (eg, SubGenius), then you'd know that isn't at all unusual. To be insulted and not answer is frankly weird. Show us your card and I'll shut up about it.
    • Please follow the About policy you keep saying you support and stop asking. Again, if you understood wikis, you would know that asking that question of someone is one step away from banning them altogether and permanently. I've seen it happen many times. On wikis, asking that is a threat. I would expect an admin to know that.
  • "He also posts versions of the same message over and over if he disagrees with someone"
    • False. I call a copy a copy; if you want to fix an article, then fix it. I can [and have - see the delete discussions] disagreed very simply. But to point out "hey this thing is just a rip off from another wikia site" is pointing out a simple fact. The articles on while I said that... are 100% copies of the discordia wiki pages, pretty much not funny and wholly not SubGenius.
    • Pointing out the same "fact" over and over again is posting the same message over and over again. What the message is about makes no difference.
  • "acts like a troll"
    • No a troll, is non-productive and goads people into arguments. I add original content and request that others do the same. I object to the SubGenius wikia being hijacked for non-SubGenius purposes. I'm not accusing you of doing such, but if the trend of copying stuff [see look! I didn't say "crap"!] wholesale from discordia wiki without fixing them for SubGenius style continues, it sure would look like that is going on.
    • You did say "crap"; you've been shown a link to your posts more than once. I'm not linking again. I didn't say you're a troll, I said except for making a lot of edits you act like one. I used to be active in the forum on the PETA site before they closed it. There were more trolls there than I've seen anywhere. I know what a troll smells like.
  • And he overly asserts his power.
    • This is really strange paragraph. If you feel that my words are harming you, you might need to go outside and throw a frisbee or something for a bit. I have no more power over you than you grant me. You and I are anonymous input streams on the far side of the 'net from each other. Either of us could be imaginary; there are plenty of days in which I wish I were.
    • If you don't understand the powers of an admin, maybe you shouldn't be one.
  • "shown links where he called editor's work horrible or crap"
    • I have never called your work horrible. "crap" = "stuff" = "junk". I called forklifting content from tangentially-related wikis crap, in no small part because wikia's import tools are weak and slurp in all linked content.**
    • Again I already posted links to where you did write that.
  • He posted "I'm still confused over what was presumed to be an insult."
    • Yes I am. Please enlighten me.
    • This has been explained to you over and over again.
  • He posted "I've been keeping my rage in check."
    • Please see HATE and dwell upon this.
    • That statement implies you could blow at any minute, so people have to be extremely careful around you. Not what I'd look for in an admin.
  • He doesn't understand how what he writes affects other people.
    • You need to take responsibility to how you react to others. Again, if you think you can play in the SubGenius pond, you need to bring the nomex suit. I think you're lucky that this place did go idle and most SubGenii can't be bothered with rules and hurdle-jumping (kinda like true Discordians in that way...), else you might be having a worse reaction to discussions with some of the actually sharp-tongued people.
I'm no troll. I do expect eventually you and Hilde will try to kick me out, so as (I think it was) Jello Biafra said "pushing the issue was always worth it". I would hope my continued attempts to engage would be perceived differently, but if you'd like to kick out one of the original admins and highest contributor then get on with it so the jalopy can finally crash. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 04:46, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
COMMENT. I do not blame Jzp-wikia for being made an admin, in my opinion, very prematurely. I have read the reasons written by The Overmind, but do not know or understand the reasoning behind them. But I was not here at the time and will not judge the decision.
I do not see anything Jzp-wikia has done here that he could not do as an editor who is not an admin. In fact it looks to me as if being an admin is distracting him from his work as a writer.
In Becoming an Admin Is Easy, Being an Admin Not So Much, there are three primary areas Wikia Staff member ForestFairy focuses on: Communication, Competence, and Organization.
Communication: "The most important factor in any conversation with others is to listen. Listen to the worries and ideas of the users and try to be neutral." Jzp-Wikia seems to listen primarily for the purpose of asserting his own position and not to consider someone else's opinion. I've rarely if ever seen him remain neutral in a disagreement.
Competence. This includes assisting "the users in the community with technical and social problems." Jzp-wikia seems highly competent in many technical areas, but seems to lack knowledge of many Wikia basics. For example, his statement above of "I have no more power over you than you grant me" seems to indicate lack of knowledge of the technical aspects and powers of being an admin. Powers and some responsibilities of admins are covered in User rights and Best practices for administrators. Perhaps even more significantly, I have seen no evidence of him helping users with social problems; in fact he seems to usually be the source of those problems.
Organization. "We suggest that there are rules in a community and users should respect those rules...." These include technical and social rules. Fundamental social rules are destribed in Community Guidelines. The first two are "be good to each other" and "look out for each other." The fourth is "respect people's privacy." Jzp-wikia seems to make a habit of not following these. Much of this, by Jzp-wikia's own statements, seems to be referencing and treating this Wikia community as if it was a part of the Church of the SubGenius which it is not. Even then, Rev. Ivan Stang, co-founder of the SubGenius Foundation, is known for being highly considerate of others. I think Stang would be a good example for Jzp-wikia to follow.
I do not want to have an already existing admin's administrative responsibilities removed. However, if Jzp-wikia or anyone being in that position is disruptive and harmful to the website, I will do so.
Unless Jzp-wikia voluntarily requests to be removed from the position of admin, I will give him a week to show that he can be a productive admin. I strongly suggest he and any member of this Wiki read and think about the links provided in this post.
None of this should in any way be construed as being opposed to Jzp-wikia as an editor. I am very happy for Jzp-wikia's work here. But sometimes being an admin can interfere with an editor's effectiveness. My primariy suggestion as an editor is that he doesn't burn himself out so that he can continue to be highly productive here for a very long time. Pope Hilde (talk) 17:26, August 6, 2015 (UTC)
Jzp-wikia wrote:
:If the use of the word bollocks offends you, you really shouldn't be in the SubGenius playground. Otherwise I'm very curious what you think is insulting.
There's no point trying to explain this and other other things you said to you again and again bcuz you obviously don't get it. That's why I don't think you should be an admin. Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 03:15, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
Jzp-wikia wrote:
:You need to take responsibility to how you react to others. Again, if you think you can play in the SubGenius pond, you need to bring the nomex suit.
You need to take responsibility for how you treat others. Don't you get that if you keep doing something that upsets someone and causes problems for the wiki maybe you should think about stopping it? I started editing a certain wiki shortly after I turned 14. People there called me horrible names and made explicit and gross sexual comments about me and posted pornography on my user page. I thought it was fun because that's what they did to everybody they liked. If you called me an alien crack whore and said I had sex with flying monkeys it wouldn't bother me. But you're acting like admins I've seen who chased users away and even split or ended wikis. I don't want that happening here. You refuse to accept that anyone who disagrees with you could have a valid position or feelings. It doesn't matter how logical you think your reasons are or how much you think other people are wrong. Admins have to be considerate of others or it's a problem. Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 04:01, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
I'm truly sorry that in other places people were horrible to you. I have no idea (nor want to know) your current age, so references to 'doing something since 14' fails to communicate meaning. It does point out the age gap yet again - the Internet wouldn't be opened up from R&D to commerce and the general public until I was 24.
I'm 20 years old. Like I wrote I didn't think it was horrible I thought it was fun. I grew up with the Internet, cell phones, and text messaging. And online pornography. If you want to learn about me, read Miley Spears which right now is actually totally true. :)Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 05:12, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
What is readily apparent is that I need to interact with you & Hilde as if you are CHurch outsiders, since trating you as One Of Us has resulted in nothing but badness. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 12:58, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
Wow. I just came to this discussion again because I was really thinking about posting I think you should have more time and have a second chance. That's because you finally and for the very first time wrote in this wiki that a misunderstanding could possibly be at least partially your responsibility. Every other time you blamed someone else. Now I see this post where you claim you're an insider and everyone else is an outsider. Are you trying to get removed as an admin? If you are you can just say so. Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 02:36, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
When I wrote in a mode of normal SubGenius conversation, I was told I was insulting and threatening and so forth. So yeah, I have to assume my audience is not that. Y'all can let me know I'm wrong on scrubgenius later if you want. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 17:24, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
OPPOSE (obviously). I expect you'll be kicking me out soon anyway, but you are wrong Pope Hilde when you say

Much of this, by Jzp-wikia's own statements, seems to be referencing and treating this Wikia community as if it was a part of the Church of the SubGenius which it is not.

This wiki very much is part of the Church! The entire point of this wiki is to serve as

a SubGenius wiki that was created to continue the work of the previous SubGenius wiki, the High Weirdness Project, which is now defunct.

(from SubGenius_Wikia_Clench:About; see also the definition of a Clenches if needed clarification that it is a grouping of SubGenii). Wikia is just the hosting platform used. If you do not support the premise on which this wiki was founded, why did you come here? Why adopt it?
I will explain this to you again for hopefully the last time. Wikia.com owns this website. It is not owned by the Church of the SubGenius. Church co-founder Rev. Stang, could, for example, demand that all images of "Bob" be removed, and they would have to be removed because "Bob"'s image is a trademark of the Church and not of Wikia. The Church has graciously allowed "Bob"'s image to be used like this for non-commercial purposes, but it doesn't have to.
On the other hand, Wikia could remove any editors and any and even all content from this website. The Church would have no decision making ability in that whatsoever.
Content on this website, unless otherwise specified, is under a Creative Commons license. It is copyrighted, but can be used elsewhere if credit is given to all contributors.
If you think any of this is in error, contact both officials at Wikia.com and at Subgenius.com and see what they say. Pope Hilde (talk) 15:52, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
The Church of the SubGenius is much larger than a website. You are ignoring the purpose for which this wiki was started (see quote above). This is a wiki BY and FOR SubGenii. This is not an academic treatise. This can serve as recruitment, but is not intended to cater to outsiders. We use wikia purely as a hosting platform. We are not the only site that does so, and our only error was not covering for others coming in an 'adopting' it, imposing their social fabric on the site.
Please directly address the question "Do you support the purpose of the site as expressed in the page SubGenius_Wikia_Clench:About"? --Jzp-wikia (talk) 12:58, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
I am confused with both your "burn out" comment, and the one that being an admin may be 'distracting' - can you provide context?
Sometimes an editor makes a great number of edits in a very short time and gets burned out on it, losing the motivation to continue editing. I am concerned about that.
If you had a lot of experience working with other editors and admins on Wikis, you would see that. Being an admin gives responsibilites that take away from writing time. For example, I have done very little article writing the past five days since you appeared because I've been responding to posts like these. That's OK, that's what an admin's supposed to do, work to answer questions and help resolve conflicts. Pope Hilde (talk) 15:56, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
In decades, I've seen people burnout sure. I was specifically requesting that you amplify on your worry about MY burnout. I assure you that while I was posting more true SubGenius content in week than others did in a month, that is barely an effort. As I have more time on an upcoming vacation, I'll likely add even more; or not (some time will shockingly be spent offline). Similarly, the site management tools available to admins here facilitate augmenting content, and by no means are a distraction. I'm sorry that you find it difficult, but maybe you shouldn't have adopted three wikis in five months if you wanted to participate more in them? --Jzp-wikia (talk) 12:58, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
I did not adopt three Wikias in five months. I've only adopted two Wikias in my entire life. On one of them, it was the opinion of both Wikia staff and myself that the vision I had for that site would not work. So I essentially abandoned it. Then I applied to adopt here. You might want to check the links I provided in the adoption forum threads to learn how Wikia adoption works. Pope Hilde (talk) 20:26, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
Considering there's only three active editors, the "community" bits might be hard to demonstrate being "a productive admin" by whatever measure in a week. Perhaps we simply need more editors to actually *have* the backdrop to meet your arbitrary demands and unmentioned checklist. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 11:16, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
Frankly, if there were many more active editors here, I would have responded more drastically. Your actions and comments could discourage productive editors and even chase them away. As it happens, the two most active editors here other than yourself (Miley and myself) both have years of experience editing wikis, first meeting at http://s23.org/ several years ago when Miley was a young teenager. We've both edited various wikis for years and have administrated wikis both separately and together.
However, in an effort to be extremely fair, I've put out the message to consult with other experienced wikia editors, admins and staff for them to see what's happened here and to give me advice on making a final decision on your status as admin. Pope Hilde (talk) 16:17, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
Did you reach out to any administrators of wikis that use wikia solely as a hosting platform? That seems to be the crux of the problem here. If you didn't, I would submit that you'll just be getting the answers you seek. Is this a public conversation over on community.wikia? If so, please do provide a link in the interest of transparency. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 12:58, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
I've asked people both publicly and privately; publicly includes this website. For the community, see here. Pope Hilde (talk) 20:35, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
As for my "arbitrary demands" and "unmentioned checklist," it is not mine it is Wikia's and it is mentioned. I've provided links for you several times. I will give important links once again. Becoming an Admin Is Easy, Being an Admin Not So Much, Help:User rights, Help:Best practices for administrators, Wikia Community Guidelines, and finally but perhaps most importantly, Wikia's Terms of Use. Pope Hilde (talk) 16:25, August 7, 2015 (UTC)
You are setting me up to fail, in a way that would be extremely poor management for a workplace. All the links provided are about "community" and I'm not liked by the folks behind the only other two active accounts here. Those references all appear to ignore site maintenance, the sole interest I have in retaining the admin rights I was given by the founder. Not to mention the admin dashboard makes it wicked easy to target holes in the content that need filling.
To be more direct, "What specific items which can be applicable to a 'community' of three would you like to see me improve upon or do to allow me to retain access to these useful tools?"
Should no-one who actually participates in, likes, or understands the Church of the SubGenius be the only arbiter[s] of access, content, etc then I would no longer be interested in participating in this site. The effort spent 'voting on' the Barack Obama article is a case in point. Just before you kick me out, the courtesy of a heads-up would be nice so that I can use the archive tool to slurp the content I contributed insted of having to do so manually.
Apologies; this was more in-depth, but I had a browser crash and it didn't retain my buffer. :-/ --Jzp-wikia (talk) 12:58, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
To keep the links easy see more that fits this discussion at here. Pope Hilde (talk) 16:52, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
I am not setting you up to fail. As you mention a workplace, I do not think it would be "extremely poor management" to give an employee access to company policies which is what I have done. If you know of any Wikia links to site maintenance I have missed, please post them so I can read and study them.
If you think you are not setting me up for failure, then you would know vague policies are not the way to manage low performers. One uses specific plans with specific goals to be met. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 17:24, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
This is not a job and I am not your boss. I responded to your workplace example, but this is not a job. I have written hundreds of words on specifics, many of them in this discussion. I have linked to more. This is a wiki, not a workplace. I do not care about managing "low performance" except as it interferes with the performance of others. You can come and go here as you please. You can make 100 edits in one day or one edit in a year. As long as an editor is productive when they are here, I will welcome them. Frankly, it's OK if they aren't productive as long as they aren't destructive. The only goals you have here are the ones you set for yourself. That's how every wiki I've ever edited works. You might want to learn more about how wikis work. I've provide links in this thread. Pope Hilde (talk) 20:46, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
You are judging to strip privileges based upon no criteria. That's where workplace metaphors enter the picture. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 01:35, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
"Should no-one who actually participates in, likes, or understands the Church of the SubGenius be the only arbiter[s] of access, content, etc then I would no longer be interested in participating in this site. The effort spent 'voting on' the Barack Obama article is a case in point." There's an example right there of the type of thing I'm talking about. First, you insult me and possibly another editor as not liking or understanding the church. This is an example of one of your "I'm right and everybody who disagrees with me is wrong" statements. Second, I put the Barack Obama article you started up for Deletion. When you explained your reasons, albeit with an insult, Miley accepted your explanation and supported keeping the article. Even though I disagreed and still do, I went by the wishes of the community and removed the Delete tag.
Insult? Your user page talks about how you hated the Church and "through Eris" think you get it now... maybe that's why you forklifted discordian content here. You spun up a forum here instead of keeping on the platform we actually use, Scrubgenius. You aren't in the book of life. Statements of facts aren't insults. At this point, I'm utterly confused why everything I type is interpretedly negatively by you. Please directly address the question repatedly asked "Do you support the purpose of the site as expressed in the page SubGenius_Wikia_Clench:About"? --Jzp-wikia (talk) 17:24, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
"Do you support the purpose of the site as expressed in the page SubGenius_Wikia_Clench:About?" I don't think you were asking me, but I'm asking you. See the section on that below.Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 02:49, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
I was asking the adoptive 'owner'. But yes, please indicate what you think I've violated and I'll either explain myself or check myself. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 01:35, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
"Just before you kick me out, the courtesy of a heads-up would be nice so that I can use the archive tool to slurp the content I contributed insted of having to do so manually." There's another example. Threatening the content of this site is not what I look for in an admin or even in an editor.
In what universe is copying content a threat? I see I yet again by using 'net slang I have confused you, and played into your assumption that I operate form bad faith. It really is strange that one who would sit in judgement comes from that place, assuming the orst in the person they are planning to judge. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 17:24, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
You said you wanted to archive the content here. When files are archived on a Wiki that means there are no longer a regular part of the site. They are removed from the main areas. As far as most users and visitors can tell, they are gone. And slurp means to eat or drink something with a slurping sound. When you eat or drink something, it's inside you and nobody else can get to it. It's gone. And I know what slurp means in Internet slang. It means to give oral sex. And what you slurp when you give oral sex what you slurp goes inside you and is also gone. Maybe you meant pod slurping which is making illegal copies. But when you use wiki terms on a wiki, people are probably going to think you're using wiki terms. And when you're talking about leaving if Hilde doesn't give you what you want anything you say that could sound like you're going to cause a problem will probably sound that way. I feel an admin should know that. Really that's one of my big worries is that you don't understand wiki administration. You can learn it, but it takes time as an editor working with admins. I edited wikis for seven years before I applied to be an admin. :) Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 03:18, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
I said I wanted to slurp an archive for myself before I was kicked out. As in 'make a copy before you all change it and I can't rollback anything'. At no point did I say "archive away", "remove", or "delete". Again, you all are reading the worst in everything I write for no other reason than I object to the hijacking of this site for discordian ends. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 01:35, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
Again, as for what I said I would use "the archive tool to slurp the content", perhaps accusing me of not knowing wikia admin stuff is out of step? You might want to actually look at [[2]] where one requests a database dump (like I did earlier in the week). --Jzp-wikia (talk) 03:45, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
As for, "What specific items which can be applicable to a 'community' of three would you like to see me improve upon or do to allow me to retain access to these useful tools?" I have specifically linked to them for you several times and even wrote a detailed description for you of specific issues more than once--see above. I no longer intend to continue pointing them out to you over and over again. If you do not understand my responses or the Wikia links, you are welcome to ask for help of other Wikia users and staff members in forums at Community.wikia.comPope Hilde (talk) 17:15, August 11, 2015 (UTC)
Quoting a reference is not "specific". --Jzp-wikia (talk) 01:35, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
You assert that you have provided specific links in response to my request for how I am to be judged by you. That assertion is false. You have provided general links. You have provided no insight into how you would judge that in a community of three, which includes the judge. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 17:24, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
Really I think Hilde's posted specifics for you many times they're even listed above. I have specifics in the section on SubGenius Wikia Clench About below which you keep saying you believe in. So please read it. Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 03:34, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
Looking at the About, "spamming, trolling, vandalism, phishing, threats, stalking, impersonating someone else, or anything like that is forbidden; none of those rules should be a problem to any well-meaning SubGenius" - no problem there
"rules against pornography, racism, sexism, homophobia, anything offensive or profane, advocating illegal activity, violating copyrights, advertising anything, interfering with the display of their advertisements, and pretty much everything else. It might be hard to follow all of their rules, since they have so many, but at least try." - this I do. Where I may have failed, I have requested specifics and have received none.
"RULE #1) Don't use the official Conspiracy name [...]" - again, no problem there.
"RULE #2) If a SubGenius wants information about them taken down [...]" - hey look, no problem there.
"RULE #3) Don't insult individual SubGenii or try to create drama about conflicts between SubGenii. No drama, and no insults against any dues-paying members. [...]" - I'm trying to prevent that by sussing out you all were dues-paying members and you both stonewalled me. So no issue there.
"Also, this wiki is not intended to be a factual wiki, but instead a wiki following the idea of "truthiness", and content that is completely made up or a half-truth or a flat-out lie or ridiculous nonsense or mythology is just as welcome as truthful content, except for some things which are in fact intended to be truthful." ...maybe this is where you both and I have problems? Anyway, please do point out where I've been wrong WRt the above and I'll address it. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 01:35, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

GIVE HIM ANOTHER WEEK. I know he hasn't acted like an admin, but he did post a couple things that show he might be trying. I vote we give him another week to try being an admin. :) Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 05:16, August 17, 2015 (UTC)

EXTENDED. Putting my personal feelings aside, the time had already been extended. However, I will respect the wishes of the community and will extend it to be two weeks. Two weeks from when I posted August 6, 2015 (UTC) would be August 20, 2015 (UTC). To clarify, this means "I will give him (through August 20, 2015) to show that he can be a productive admin." Pope Hilde (talk) 14:37, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
It is amusing when you keep using "community" to mean you, your friend, and the guy you want gone. You still have yet to define "productive admin". As for "things that show he might be trying" it would be nice to know what you two think that is, at least for the next poor sap who comes along. I suspect it is because I started appropriately treating you both like outsiders instead of fellow travelers. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 17:24, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
The community is everyone who has edited this website. Right now as you said there are three active editors. But even someone who has not edited in a long time, such as yourself who had made no edits in over two years, is welcome to return and state their opinion. New editors who've never edited here before are welcome to state their opinion, although naturally the opinions of active editors will generally be given more weight. In the case of you having a chance at being an admin beyond the week I gave you, I gave weight to the opinions of yourself and Miley over my own. Frankly, if I went by the advice I received from others outside of this particular site and my own opinion, I would have stuck to the one week and would already have had your admin status removed. But I did not.
In the case of you being an editor here, I do not want you gone, I never said or implied I wanted you gone, and I've posted repeatedly, even in this discussion, that I wanted you to stay and be a productive editor. For a person who many times has mentioned the "assume good faith" principle, you sure do not seem to be doing that with me.
"You still have yet to define 'productive admin'." Once again, read what I posted in this discussion, including the links I provided. Those define a  productve admin. If you don't understand me or the links, read the suggestions I posted above.
As for your saying "I started appropriately treating you both like outsiders" if you don't understand why that's not likely to endear you to other editors, please do I as suggested above and ask other Wikia users and staff members in forums how that works. Or ask other SubGenii how that works. Especially look at the opinions and actions of Rev. Ivan Stang--you might want to read his interview in Voices of Chaos. You might also want to read what SubGenius Doktor DynaSoar at Yetii Genetii Research InstiToot wrote. He wrote against the supposed SubGenius concept of never getting along here.
Besides that, in contrast to your saying you started treating us like outsiders, you also wrote above, "What is readily apparent is that I need to interact with you & Hilde as if you are CHurch outsiders, since trating you as One Of Us has resulted in nothing but badness." Which of those two statements is true? Pope Hilde (talk) 20:50, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
I will say one more thing for, hopefully, the last time to you. This is not subgenius.com, it is wikia.com. Things that might be perfectly acceptable there are not necessarily acceptable here. Wikia.com is one of the most popular websites in the world. I think it's great that this is available to let people know about the church who've never even heard of it, but they find it because they're checking out Wikia. If someone new to and excited by the idea of the SubGenius starts editing here and is talked to by an admin as you've been talking, they are liable to never want to have anything to do with the Church. I don't want the posts of an admin discouraging people from participating in the Church or Wikia who would otherwise participate productively. You've been very productive as an editor for several days. You have until August 20 to show you're willing and able to also be productive as an admin here. Pope Hilde (talk) 20:02, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
It is cool that you want to be concerned about hypothetical future editors, even at the expense of current prolific ones. But hypothetical future non-SubGenius editors are less interesting to me, and I hope you understand that by now.
One of the reasons we never used forums, etc here was because we wanted to encourage contributions from anonymous editors. Many SubGenii don't want to create identities on a thousand platforms. I hope your new regime will continue to honour that.
It is a shame that none of the advice you say you received is on the thread you provided.
With respect to me being kicked out, given that you both forklifted discordian content and refused to even provide token SubGenius content until I kicked up a fuss, I expect that once the sole gatekeepers of the content are not SubGenii, there will be an increase in non-SubGenius content (and/or decrease in actual SubGenius content). I base this upon actual actions, not hypotheticals. The current adjustments to forklifted content are minor, and never addressed my actual references pointing out how it didn't belong. So yeah, between those historical actions and things like the response to the Barak Obama article, I expect any future interaction to be full of frustration and voting rather than actual content addition. That's Not Fun, and I have enough such hassle at work so I don't expect to participate then; therefore removing my ability to defend content == kicking me out. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 01:35, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

SubGenius Wikia Clench:About: Jzp-wikia I want to show some things from the SubGenius Wikia Clench About page. You've pointed to that many times as policy you support. Really I think it backs up the the things Hilde's been saying.

  • "This site is hosted on Wikia, after all, so those rules apply here, just as they apply to every other wiki hosted by Wikia." We have to follow the rules here, especially Terms of Use, or we can be kicked off. Even if you think of this site as part of the church, the church has rules; there's rules even for Scrubgenius. You have to be a dues-paying member, but even then if you don't follow the rules they can kick you off. It's not just a Wikia thing, it's a SubGenius thing. SubGenii have a hiearchy with those who run the company who owns the trademarks, employees, paid card-carrying members, divisions among card-carrying members, etc. In Discordianism, there isn't any hiearchy; there's no company; there's no paid membership; there's no official website. But this is Wikia and it's SubGenius related, so it has rules people have to follow.
  • "Protect people's privacy." Some people have their legal name on their membership card, and you're supposed to put your address. When you demand to see people's membership cards, that's a violation of their privacy.
  • "If a SubGenius wants information about them taken down off this wiki to protect their privacy...we can and will do that for them." This is an unusual policy for a wiki, but it relates to the one above. Many SubGenii work very hard to protect their privacy as does the Church. Again, demanding they post their membership cards publicly with private information shown violates Church policy.
  • "Don't insult individual SubGenii or try to create drama about conflicts between SubGenii." Hilde hasn't had time to do edits because she's been having to deal with insults and drama. Really it's taken a lot of my time here too. When you or anybody makes insults and creates drama, it violates this policy and makes problems for this website.
  • "To see a current list of administrators who can enforce these rules, look at Special:ListAdmins." You, Hilde, and now myself (although you and I maybe temporarily) are responsible for enforcing these rules. We should be enforcing the rules, not breaking them.
  • I hope this helps! :) Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 02:20, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
You really should have your Church name on your ordainment card, and if you have an address blank it out for crying out loud! I specifically asked for ordainment info afer asking about both of you on Scrubgenius. Stang said you weren't in the book of life, and other suggested I ask for your cards. I never thought you all would flip out over it as that isn't uncommon! The only reason my address isn't obfuscated on the image of my card from my profile? It is an old one form like 30 years ago.
Again, without knowing you all are actual members of the Church, causing friction for you both doesn't apply. Further, if you think anything I've written has been an insult and you've taken drama from it... I'm sorry as this is the burner on "low" - SubGenii are much more harsh with each other WHEN THEY ARE FRIENDS.
Additionally, if it really takes a lot of your time to "deal with me", then maybe you should rethink administration. Somehow I can deal with all this and still provide more useful data in two weeks than either of you did in a month. Given the timing and that I didn't pop back in until the adoption, I suspect the claims of being distracted are overblown.
I guess we'll see how well you both do after having chased me away. --Jzp-wikia (talk) 01:35, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
"Again, without knowing you all are actual members of the Church, causing friction for you both doesn't apply." I don't know how many times Hilde has pointed out to you that this is wikia.com not subgenius.com. Saying you're going to cause problems here and don't have to follow guidelines including the ones you keep promoting yourself is ridiculous and hypocritical. Besides that I posted a link to my membership packet with the Church of the SubGenius return address label and with my name on it! I even said check and see if that's the right postage for a membership packet so there'd be no doubt. Hilde said I shouldn't have posted it because you were just baiting me and I see she's right. This is like President Obama showing his birth certificate and people saying but how do we know it's not a fake? It's pointless. How do I know what you posted isn't a fake? Maybe that's somebody else's card. Maybe you copied a blank card and put in your name. That type of argument is pointless.
I told you I edited Uncyclopedia where calling each other obscene names and posting gross insults was common. I did that when I was 14 year old. I got called a slut and a whore and a drunk and a child beater. It didn't bother me. That was the culture there. There is no culture here it's being established. You're saying everybody has to behave the way you want them to. We're saying if we don't follow Wikia's rules they can kick us off and shut down this site. They've done that with users and sites before.
"Additionally, if it really takes a lot of your time to "deal with me", then maybe you should rethink administration." That's like saying if it really takes a lot of your time dealing with children, maybe you shouldn't be a teacher. Or if you have to deal with criminals you shouldn't be a cop. I don't see how that makes any sense. It's not our fault you're continually causing problems here.
"I guess we'll see how well you both do after having chased me away." How many times do we have to tell you we aren't chasing you away? That we want you editing here? And what level of maturity does a threat like that show? Hilde and I first edited wikis together something like six years ago and it's still working fine. Hilde's published professionally many times and I have a little. We both contributed to a book that got a blurb by Ivan Stang and other SubGenii and a foreword by the man who created Warehouse 23 made by a company that popularized the Church of the SubGenius and created official SubGenius products. He's part of my Facebook family. I wrote the article that's featured on the front page of Uncyclopedia right now, and Uncylopedia is probably the most popular site on all Wikia. It's even got it's own Wikipedia article.
Hilde has shown incredible patience with you. I don't think she's even blocked you once. But I can see why she gave up trying to communicate with you. I've done dozens of wikis and related sites for seven years, but you're one of the most closed minded and hypocritical editors I've ever seen. Miley Spears Discordian American Princess to the Stars (let's talk) 03:29, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

The decision was to relieve Jzp-wikia of the burdens of administration and to encourage him to continue to be a productive editor. Pope Hilde (talk) 14:54, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

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